thethirdhare (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
thethirdhare) wrote2009-08-31 03:01 pm
thethirdhare) wrote2009-08-31 03:01 pm
Concrit/Plot Post
Hello there! This is where you can talk to me about my Mulan. Think I play her well? Think I play her poorly? Or perhaps my characterization isn't the problem. If there is anything at all you'd like to say about how I play her, or my roleplaying in general, this is where you can say it. Don't worry, I won't bite, just remember that if you do have an issue, please be specific and give me examples, and if possible, ideas on how to improve! Anonymous commenting is on but screening is not because its a Douchebag with a capital D. You can't reply to screened comments, and I'd like to talk with those who want to plot, or have crit :> Let you know I'm listening.
This post can also be used if you'd like to plot something in particular with Mulan, or if you just have any sort of question, or would like to gank her for a log. Drop me a note here, or ping me at RingCampana on AIM.
This post can also be used if you'd like to plot something in particular with Mulan, or if you just have any sort of question, or would like to gank her for a log. Drop me a note here, or ping me at RingCampana on AIM.
I'M SO SORRY this is going to be SO big
I don’t think that I ever took so long to write a critic in my whole life. This because I’m doing it face to face (and not anon) and I don’t want to be taken in the wrong way, nor ruin your fun. Also, I’m not sure if it’s my place to do it, since I never really interacted with Mulan, nor I am that active over Soul_Campaign.
I cannot call this a critic. I would prefer if you saw it as an opinion and perhaps just a way for me to understand where exactly you are taking the character. I don’t want to criticize, and I apologize in advance if I’m taking over the character as if I was the one playing her. It’s not my intention, and I do want you to understand I’m doing this with a kind heart.
First, I need to explain to you my vision over Disney characters. Disney is an animation company for children, therefore their characters cannot promote things that our society usually condemns. One big example is that the latest movie “The Princess and the frog” never once mentioned racism, even though considering the time the story was happening, the place, and the people, that would be probably the first and main thing the characters would talk about.
While you may say that doesn’t make the character, you have to see it does. It’s Disney’s characters, and all of them – the heroes or heroines of the story – usually are the epitome of good, right and society’s morality (either you or I consider it right or wrong, natural or unnatural).
You cannot say Timon and Pumbaa, from The Lion King, are a gay couple, even though even the voice actors joked about it. That is not Disney’s vision, so they aren’t a gay couple, because in Disney’s world, there is no homosexuality.
Is it sad and homophobic and stupid? Maybe, but it’s Disney, and they were the ones creating the characters and giving them that personality. If Disney says “NO, they are NOT gay” it’s automatically canon that they aren’t. even if Disney doesn’t say it, we know Disney’s vision on the matter, so it makes it unspoken, yet known, canon.
So in Mulan, considering her a transgender is definitively NOT Disney’s vision. Never once Disney made Mulan’s personality as such. Never once she felt confused because she felt like a man. That is not Disney’s point and that is something Disney’s vision wouldn’t allow because this is a children’s movie.
Now, of course we are in a panfandom rp and character’s are presented with a much more real world than the one Disney created them. So many people take the “reality” and forget Disney’s “everything will be okay” glittery vision.
You did that to Mulan, in a way. You took a different approach than most People would do with Disney’s characters and decided to focus on the reality of their time. I CAN’T criticize you for doing it, although I do not agree. And I will explain why I don’t, yet I want you to understand it is NOT my place to tell you what approach you should have about a character.
But see it like this: Hercules. Ancient Greek.
You know, ancient Greeks had homosexual relations all the time. They saw women as things and bitches to have their kids and that was about it. Homosexual sex was common and the young boys (even when they were 14) had to – sometimes forcefully – be the “women” for older men. Pedophilia, homosexuality and sadomy. Orgies too.
If I picked Hercules from the actual reality of his time, wasn’t it going to be utterly weird for me to make him do all those things?
no subject
First of all, there would be no actual King. And second, the Pride’s lion mates with ALL females; so Mufasa would be Nala’s father. Nala, who married Simba, her brother.
Sometimes picking reality from Disney movies isn’t a correct approach, because Disney isn’t supposed to be about the harsh cruelty – and… well, extremely immoral – of the times the characters lived in. And even if it was, they smooth it down.
That is why I don’t agree.
Again, it is not my place to tell you how to start with you character.
But if you are indeed picking Mulan and taking the strong impact of her society on her, perhaps you should remember she is from Ancient China. If she showed up in her world again as a man, what EXACTLY would her family think? Black magic, let’s kill her. That’s her society’ reality.
And since she is from 450a.C, do you think she would just accept changing her gender like that? Changing her body? I mean, she is not advanced enough to understand those changes and for her it’d be just as abnormal. So to accept such thing?
And if you are not picking Mulan so society-influenced, then why did she take that root instead of just looking around, at other women who are fighting Shibusen’s war? There are plenty, they are strong, they fight, they are smart. They are amazing examples for Mulan.
She is smart and she is so stubborn. If she saw that, in other world, women were SOMEONE and not just maids for the men, she would understand it’s okay if she wasn’t a bride and good house-wife. She is so stubborn and she truly believes she can do something MORE than that, and suddenly, she sees exactly what she has been hoping for: women being something more.
So why does she discard all that, and keeps saying “yes, I need to be a man” instead of “Perhaps it’s okay.”? Because of her society? In the movie, she went against her society by disgusting herself as a man, and when she was found AGAIN, she went against men’s orders. She just needs motivation to do it, a reason, and what better reason than to see the other women around her being more than she ever dreamed of?
Mulan doesn’t wish to be a man. There are several scenes in the movie that she clearly shows us she is still soft and enjoys her woman-touch. Like when taking a bath (I’m Portuguese, so in my version she says something like “Just because I’m pretending to be a man, doesn’t mean I’ve to smell like them”). Or when she picked the small little doll from a girl and put it besides the sword – no man would do that.
She is a woman, and while she hides it, doesn’t mean she doesn’t like being it.
The option of hiding as a man came from wanting to protect her father, not because she believed as a woman she was any less. She had no other choice, but I’m sure if she did, she would discard the whole “I will hide as a man” thing. And besides during her training, it only came to prove that even women can do it, and SHE KNOWS.
Because she came from a family without many men – and her father is also very lenient – Fa Mulan never really had much contact with men. When she did – entering the training camp – she was disgusted at the things she saw men doing. Another reason why she didn’t want to become one: they are disgusting. She is happy with her clean and neat self, I’m sure.
no subject
While she doesn’t fit as a typical girl, what she is expects is to be more than typical… yet still a girl. Unfortunately also clashes with her wanting to honour her family, which it appears the only way was to be everything she is not, hence why it frustrates her greatly. I do think you should focus on this, above all. How to help my family without dishonouring them, how to become better to bring them honour?
I don’t want to fall into critique only. I do thing you have Mulan’s voice down perfectly – when it’s not about this subject. Overall, you are an amazing Mulan and when I read your posts I do like to remember her voice while saying that.
And truthfully, I can’t see you changing what you have done so far with Mulan; she is not the type of character to back down without a reason, and since you already gone this far with her, it’s ooc for her to simply go “let’s forget all about this I want to be a man thing”. So I’m not expecting you to change or stop it. It’s not my point. Again, I cannot call this a critic, but yes an opinion. Also, I’d like to hear your explanation if you are willing to give me one, of course. Like I said, I’m not all active, I’m fairly new compared to you, so maybe she did went through CR enough to want this. Who knows?
Again, forgive me if I sounded rude or like I don’t know anything what is going on. Only recently (last month) I heard about this, so I decided to contact you soon, because I’d rather do so than let it drag.
- I'm done now. I'm SO sorry for the TL;dr
no subject
Here I explain a little of how this thing started and my reasoning.
I think it might also help to read my point two, but I’ll just copy paste that: “First and foremost, the movie did have an identity theme within it (Reflection) but I still think that before that it is a movie about a daughter who loves her father and family more than anything. I had a very nice discussion with an anon on the advice meme and I think they put it nice when they said: in order of importance it goes her family, her country, and herself at a distant third. Given her background it is no wonder she thinks this way, but it is all very, very genuine. She would do absolutely anything for them and to keep the prestige of her family.”
The thing I would like to highlight from point 10. the most is that I do not think that Mulan is transgender in the slightest, and I have never planned for her to actually go through with the operation, hence her still being female in TYL, but she will come close. As you said it’s not going to be easy for her to just suddenly change her mind but there are steps that have already been made to make her begin to delay, put off, or question her decision.
So back to the points that led up to her decision---and sorry for jumping all over the place. In the link I gave you, you see that one of the troubles Mulan underwent in her time in SC was the suicide of Lisa. On top of that, quite literally, she has lost everyone that she had deep CR, not only to BREW but to death. Shang’s death at Adachi’s hand also really messed her up, as did BREW take away Lavi who had been her partner at the same time Shang died. So she’s lost a number of people she really cared about in all sorts of horrible ways, knows that despite how well women have it here that won’t be the case back home, so really it’s more that at the time she learned about sex changes Mulan was at an all time low. This greatly influenced her request to Kurapika to teach her more about it. If none of the stuff I mentioned had happened, she wouldn’t have asked about it.
So combined with these losses, her desire to do something more for her family, and the belief that this is the most secure way out of these problems that’s why she decided to try and go through with the change. There of course –will- be a lot of problems when she returns, a lot of which were brought up to her by Ling and she is taking into account and trying to find a way around. Funnily, the whole being a different gender thing isn’t so much a concern since the only ones who will know about it, she expects, are her family, and in Taoism the changing of gender is actually something that is considering spiritually possible (though oddly it is usually a man becoming a woman for reasons of immortality). Still, those issues of what might happen when she returns home are issues and one she had been thinking about, and not all of them (in fact not most) really are things she has tied up, but she believes she can. So yes! In respect to how troublesome this can be when she returns, you are totally right, but at the outset she had been convinced she could resolve these.
no subject
I hope that clarifies a couple things? And hopefully, if it does, hopefully that’ll make Mulan’s decisions and reasoning make a little more sense. I don’t think I answered or addressed all your questions, sorry if I didn’t, but please don’t hesitate to ask or point out any flaws in all this.
no subject
Yes, it did clarify a lot, I admit. Like I told you, I haven’t been on SC for that long, nor my activity allowed me to really interact and understand Mulan’s whole character – I didn’t know about Lisa’s suicide nor Shang’s death.
I can understand your points, though. Again, I’ve a very childish vision on Disney characters (because they are my childhood, ahah), but I am flexible enough and I won’t condemn your choices for the character, because the growth seems very reasonable and fair to me.
Thank you :3
no subject
And thank you for taking the time to so kindly give your thoughts and opinions.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-03-09 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)